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Suw: MyBlogLog also switches to Yahoo! logins. Is this the beginning of a worrying trend? What about Upcoming and Del.icio.us? I hope Yahoo! aren’t thinking about trying to replicate the Google empire by simply acquiring lots of services then foisting the
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Suw: Most recent user stats for Flickr I could find – 4.5m users. 5% of which is 225,000. That’s quite a few people still ‘Old Skool’.
Bad Flickr: No donut for you
The day before yesterday, I blogged about Flickr forcing users to switch over to using a Yahoo! ID to access their Flickr account, and the patronising email I got about it. I was not a happy camper.
Now the furore has developed, and Flickr/Yahoo look even worse. Maybe it’s just bad timing, but it seems there are three main issues running concurrently here.
1. The forced switch to a Yahoo! ID.
2. Flickr forcing graceless limits to friends and tags.
3. Yahoo! using ‘all rights reserved’ and ‘non-commercial’ Creative Commons licensed photos on their Wii page, for commercial gain.
Oh dear. What a mess.
The forced switch to Yahoo!
Flickr announced in 2005 that they were going to be shifting to the Yahoo! log-in, and in a BBC article from September 05, they reassured people that all would really be ok with this move:
“We care deeply about our community, and their worries are ours,” [Caterina] Fake told the BBC News website.
“But I think the fears are unfounded. As always, the proof is in the pudding. We’re tending to our knitting, and making sure the Flickr experience is as good as it’s always been.”
But mistrust of Yahoo! goes back a long way, and disgruntled Flickr members started the Flick Off group to protest. There are now 1533 members, counting down to the day when Flickr IDs will be turned off and some of them will quit Flickr for good. The official Flickr forum thread is currently running at 1681 responses, and still going strong. The issues people are worried about include:
- Finding an available Yahoo! ID that doesn’t suck.
- Hating your existing Yahoo! ID; or losing the password and being unable to retrieve it.
- Hating the unpleasant and long-winded Yahoo! sign-up process, which includes questions some people find intrusive and objectionable. For an insight into this process, take a look at Chris Messina’s screenshots.
- Intermittency of Yahoo! sessions – people like being permanently logged into Flickr and don’t want to have to keep logging into Yahoo! (This is supposed to have been fixed now, but not everyone is happy with the cookie-based solution.)
- Concern that, in the UK at least, Yahoo! is wedded to British Telecom’s broadband service and that by tying Flickr to Yahoo! they are also tying Flickr to BT. This is not good – if you want to change ISP you loose your BT Internet email address, which would then invalidate your Yahoo! ID and cut you off from Flickr.
- Yahoo!’s habit of tracking usage using cookies and other methods.
- Fear that Yahoo! will terminate your account for reasons unclear or unreasonable, thus locking you out of Flickr.
- Fear that your Yahoo! account will expire without you realising it, thus locking you out of Flickr.
- The item in the official help page that says if you terminate your Yahoo! account, you will also terminate your Flickr account and delete all your photos (see below).
- A perception that Yahoo! marketing practises are unethical and exploitative.
- Fear that Yahoo! will screw with Flickr the same way they screwed with other sites they bought in the past.
- Technical issues with the Yahoo! sign-in screen, such as it timing out and not allowing browsers to save the password.
- Issues with different Terms of Service for Yahoo!
- Confusion for people with multiple accounts of either kind.
- A feeling that if one has signed up with and paid money to Flickr, one should not have to now sign up to Yahoo!
- Problems with people losing photos and contacts after merging their Flickr account with their Yahoo! account.
- Concern that people who have paid for Pro accounts, but who choose not to switch to Yahoo!, will lose their money.
I could go on – this list is just culled from the first two pages of the thread and, whilst it’s admirable to see some participation from Flickr staff, they don’t seem to be really appreciating the depth of feeling about this nor do they appear to be systematically answering questions. Are these concerns and fears legitimate? Some are minor niggles that aren’t all that big of a deal, some have already been addressed by the Flickr team, but some are deeply disturbing. For example, if you delete your Yahoo! ID, you will also be deleting your Flickr account, as the official help page says:
I’m going to delete my Yahoo! account. What happens to my Flickr photos?
If you sign in to Flickr with a Yahoo! ID and you then delete your Yahoo! account, you will not be able to sign in to your Flickr account. In the future, this will delete your Flickr account as well, including all of your photos, but currently your Flickr account must be deleted separately.
This seems like a really rather harsh policy. Are users really clear on this point?
Technorati Tags: media 2.0
Set-top box and game console as stealth RSS adoption tools
Recently, I’ve been devoting too much of my quality time to twiddling with my MythTV setup. It gives my old Dell Latitude CPx PIII machine something useful to do. After getting the system up and running, I went the full monty and installed the Myth plugins, which turned a neat little free TiVo-esque setup into so much more, like a media centre with RSS goodness. I just wish that I could have my TV or radio playing in a small window as I do that. And the Myth weather centre with the great satellite animation beats anything I can easily get on any UK website. (The BBC site is getting better, but the navigation is a mess.)
UPDATE: Just as I was thinking about RSS on set-top boxes, I found this story about the Associated Press creating an RSS news feed for the Nintendo Wii. Wow. Except, it’s not RSS. I assumed news feed, meant it was powered by RSS. No, my gaming friends tell me. Still, an interesting way to syndicate news, no matter what the technology. Gizmodo has some screen shots. Nice mash up. Wii owners, let us know how this works.
People talk about RSS being an edge case activity, but that really misses the point. RSS is a powerful tool in its own right, but now, we’re seeing how RSS really unlocks your content from your website, opening up a world of syndication opportunities. It will be the applications where RSS is invisible to the user that really drive adoption, and media companies are only now beginning to scrape the surface.
Yahoo/Flickr get the bullyboy tactics out
If there’s one thing I hate, it’s being told what to do. That’s why I’ve been a freelance for so long. I like making my own decisions and resent having them made for me, so it’s not surprising that I feel royally peeved with Yahoo and Flickr for sending me this email:
Dear Old Skool Account-Holding Flickr Member,
On March 15th we’ll be discontinuing the old email-based Flickr sign in system. From that point on, everyone will have to use a Yahoo! ID to sign in to Flickr.
We’re making this change now to simplify the sign in process in advance of several large projects launching this year, but some Flickr features and tools already require Yahoo! IDs for sign in — like the mobile site at m.flickr.com or the new Yahoo! Go program for mobiles, available at: http://go.yahoo.com.
95% of your fellow Flickrites already use this system and their experience is just the same as yours is now, except they sign in on a different page. It’s easy to switch: it takes about a minute if you already have a Yahoo! ID and about five minutes if you don’t.
You can make the switch at any time in the next few months, from today till the 15th. (After that day, you’ll be required to merge before you continue using your account.) To switch, start at this page:
http://flickr.com/account/associate/
Nothing else on your account or experience of Flickr changes: you can continue to have your FlickrMail and notifications sent to any email address at any domain and your screenname will remain the same.
Complete details and answers to most common questions are available here:
http://flickr.com/help/signin/
Thanks for your patience and understanding – and even bigger thanks for your continued support of Flickr: if you’re reading this, you’ve been around for a while and that means a lot to us!
Warmest regards,
– The Flickreenos
This email does not fill me with the warm fuzzy glow I usually associate with Flickr. Instead, my brain reinterprets if for me thus:
Hey! Unhip square kid with no friends!
You may not have noticed, but we’ve been making it increasingly difficult for you to sign in to Flickr using your original Flickr ID by burying the sign-in page deep in the bowels of our site, where we hoped you’d never find it. It seems, however, that you haven’t taken the hint, and are still using your old ID. For shame. From March 15th you’re not going to be able to use your old ID anymore, and we’re going to force you to either sign up to Yahoo or use your Yahoo ID instead. We don’t really care if this is an inconvenience for you – you’re just going to have to lump it.
We’re making this change now because it makes life much easier for us. We also want to introduce you to a plethora of Yahoo services that you’ve never shown the least bit of interest in, and probably neither want nor need. We’ve already introduced some new features to Flickr and we made them Yahoo-only, so that we can pretend that we’re doing you a favour by forcing you to use your Yahoo login. Just to prove it, here are two things that you can’t currently do. Fool.
Anyway, you’re so old-fashioned and behind the times that you’re one of only 5% of cretins who still use the old Flickr ID, so give it up already. You’re like one of those little grannies who refuse to move out of a hideous towerblock that’s scheduled for redevelopment by nice coffee shop owners, just because it’s ‘home’ or some such nonsense. This is progress, dammit.
OK, OK, we’ll give you a couple of months to come to terms with the fact that we own your ass. But after that, you will be assimilated, like it or not. Resistance is futile.
Of course, we do appreciate that you were one of the people who coughed up cold, hard cash for a proper Flickr account back when we really needed the money, but hell, Yahoo gave us big bucks a while back, so meh. Whatever.
Warmest fuzzy wuzzies. No really, we do care. Honest. No, don’t look at us like that. Look, we’re about to turn into squirrels even cuddlier and cuter than the Trotts. Just you wait and see… Look! Look!!
– The cutesy wutesy Flickreenosywosy
You know, I like Flickr. There are some astonishingly good people working there. There are also some astonishingly good people working at Yahoo, but yet I don’t like the Yahoo brand at all. It’s unpleasant. It says ‘ignorant false-hearted redneck who always hangs on other people’s coat-tails’ to me. They are a brand that started off ‘pretty cool’ in the mid-90s, sank to ‘horrible’ in 2001 and have now rebounded to ‘icky’ (in no small part to some absolutely awful TV adverts), with a hint of ‘cool’ because of the services they’ve bought. That’s a shame, because I think that the people I know who work for Yahoo and Flickr are some of the smartest cookies out there, and all lovely to boot.
But I feel like I’m being both patronised and bullied at the same time by this email. Not once do they apologise for any inconvenience they may cause me, not a single ‘sorry’. Come on Flickr, you can do better than this. You are the Web 2.0 posterboys, your site is the one everyone talks about when they want a good example of community and social networking. Surely you are the people who understand that someone’s attachment to a site, even to a log-in, isn’t logical but emotional, and that you have to factor that in to how you deal with your community?
I didn’t join up to Yahoo Photos, I joined Flickr, and I rather resent the way I’m being told to move my log-in. You can be sure that I will be one of the bloodyminded few who will hold on to their Flickr log-in until the very last moment, just out of principle. Is there truly no behind-the-scenes solution to this? Would it not be better to use an OpenID solution, so that people have the option of using one log-in for whichever services they like? Or is this the beginning of a new mega-login trend? Are they going to start forcing people to use their Yahoo ID to log into Del.icio.us, or Upcoming? Oh god… you’re not trying to be Google are you?
Don’t let us down here Flickr. You created something wonderful, and now you have an opportunity to do something cool about your login problem, instead of just forcing users to dance to your tune.
Technorati Tags: media 2.0
A little bit whoooa, a little bit wheeea
Despite the guys at Corante making some good advances in fixing our blog, we’re still having a few uncooperative moments from the MT installation. Sometimes Strange is here, sometimes it isn’t. Sometimes you can comment, sometimes you can’t. Sometimes we can get in to the admin pages, sometimes we can’t. At least now I don’t have to connect via my mobile phone to access the admin pages! All I can say is please bear with us and with Corante. They’re working as hard as they can to fix things!
links for 2007-01-30
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Kevin: Andrew Grant-Adamson takes a look where media blogging in the UK is in light of recent figures released in the UK. He quotes figures from Neil McIntosh at the Guardian and Robin Hamman at the BBC.
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Kevin: The Indy kills it’s blogs, or at least the link to them. “A tactical retreat?” asks Andrew. Suw and I had a lot of fun with them in our podcast. The Indy won’t succeed in blogging becase they’re scared of killing their print product. To quote the M
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Kevin: Wow. I would have expected this piece in Wired not the FT. Publishing 2.0. It’s not about control. It’s not about copyright. There is no business in treating all of your customers as potential criminals.
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Kevin: Building on the talk earlier this month about journalists needing new heroes. We also need new skills. If you’re a journalist and you’re not using RSS, you’re ceding an advantage to your competiton.
links for 2007-01-29
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Suw: Biddulph does cool shit with Second Life. Again.
Joining the Media 2.0 Workgroup
Names are strange things. You don’t always need to be able to define what a thing is to know it when you see it, but having a name for it helps you talk about it. That’s what happened with Web 2.0. We know what the 2.0 implies: change, development, progress, advancement. And we know how some people interpret 2.0 when smooshed together with the word Web: strong social components to web services and applications, agile development and the everlasting beta, networks of friends and co-workers, aqua-effect fills, rounded corners, and names with the letter E missing.
Once O’Reilly had kicked it off, the ‘2.0’ trend rapidly expanded, to Journalism 2.0, Marketing 2.0, Business 2.0, Office 2.0. You name it, it has a Version 2.0.
Even Media. Which makes sense, when you think about it. We’ve already had New Media, but it’s clear that New Media isn’t keeping up with the incredibly rapid development of the web and Web 2.0. New Media is antiquated, obsolete. Any business that pats itself on the back because they have some sort Head of New Media needs a kick up the butt and a lesson in Media 2.0.
So when Chris Saad invited Kevin and me to join his Media 2.0 Workgroup, we thought it sounded like an interesting opportunity to help give Media the kick it needs to get it moving in the right direction.
Chris doesn’t quite put it like that though. He says:
Media 2.0 is a term used to describe the emerging social media industry. Every community needs some help to grow. The long tail has a head, and conversation needs a topic. So in this spirit, we have gathered a group of people who are passionate about the issues of Media 2.0 to help propel and focus the conversation.
The Media 2.0 Workgroup is a combined feed (or OPML of feeds if you prefer) that we’ll be sharing with luminaries such as Ben Metcalfe, Jeff Pulver, Ian Forrester and Jeneane Sessum amongst many others. So go on, get it in yer aggregator!
Technorati Tags: media 2.0
links for 2007-01-28
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Suw: On the one hand, well done Boing Boing and their readers; on the other hand, the BBC seems not to know the difference between ‘bloggers’ and ‘readers’, and is somewhat dismissive of us all as ‘lemmings’ anyway. And this from the BBC. Oh, the irony.
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Suw: Not only is the wonderful Gary Turner back in blogs, he’s also saying stuff I agree with about podcasts.
links for 2007-01-27
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Kevin: Charlene Li of Forrester reviews the return on investment for blogs. It’s a good overview of why to blog, the returns and a few of the risks to consider.
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Kevin: LA Times announces reorg. “O’Shea employed dire statistics on declining advertising to urge The Times’ roughly 940 journalists to throw off a “bunker mentality” and to begin viewing latimes.com as the paper’s primary vehicle for delivering news.”
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Suw: I can only wholeheartedly agree with the author’s conclusions.